The Romans were led by Flavius Aetius, often called one of the "last of the Romans". Was he the greatest Flavian general?
Monday, June 20, 2011
General Debate: 20 June 2011
The Romans were led by Flavius Aetius, often called one of the "last of the Romans". Was he the greatest Flavian general?
11 comments:
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Yep.
ReplyDeleteTrick question? What about Vespasian? He was a Flavian wasn't he?
ReplyDeleteOn balance though you'd go with Aetius - he had to work with allies and Vespasian didn't have to fight the Huns.
Well, first of all Aetius Flavius wasn't a "Flavian". The Flavian dynasty proper was two hundred and fifty odd years earlier. The gens Flavius applied to his name was an honorific, a sort of Roman knighthood. So i would say Vespasian was the best of the Flavian generals.
ReplyDeleteThe Western Romam Empire that Aetius operated was dying in the 450's, crippled by the loss of the revenues from the North African provinces that had fallen to the Vandals twenty years before. The Roman field armies had suffered heavy casaulties, and large numbers of the units were drawn from second rate border legions.
The "Roman" Army that fought the Huns was most likely mainly a barbarian force of Visigoths and Alans, with remnant Roman units. Research by the likes of Peter Heather show that the visigothic army was probably about 15-20,000 strong . The Romans could have fielded for this battle about the same or slightly less, a strength consistant with a field army of nominal 40,000 or so strong that had suffered heavy casaulties (and many of their troops would have been barbarian recruits in Roman armour), and the Alans much less. The total Roman army was probably less than 50-55,000 men, although it was a large force for the time and apparently the Huns were about the same size, so it would have been a big battle for the time.
Flavius Aetius does deserve to be amongst the great Roman generals, given what he had to work with.
It was a bit of a trick question, because Aetius wasn't a "true" Flavian. But then nor was another candidate I hoped someone would mention Stilicho.
ReplyDeleteVespasian was very good, but many of his later victories were won by his son Titus. My vote's for Titus.
"...Vespasian was very good, but many of his later victories were won by his son Titus. My vote's for Titus..."
ReplyDeleteSo you hate Israel, just like all the other lefties?
I did want to mention Stilicho but I thought he didn't qualify as a Flavian. As I mentioned on a previous thread I think Stilicho did extraordinarily well for the time he was in.
ReplyDeleteMaybe we could also have a debate on most under-rated Roman empire or most unfairly vilified one.
ReplyDeleteI did love a scene in an Aldous Huxley book (sorry as so often the title escapes me) where a man describes how he always likes to imagine with everyone he meets which of the emperors they would be out of Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius and Nero if they were to receive unlimited power. If you ever find yourself bored at a dinner party/party it can add some interest to play this game.
If you find yourself at a dinner party with Tiberius, make your excuses and get the hell out before the port and cigars.
ReplyDeleteIf you find yourself at a dinner party with Tiberius, make your excuses and get the hell out before the port and cigars.
ReplyDeleteAnd try to avoid attending a dinner party with Caligula who supposedly would laugh at a guest and when the guest would ask what he was laughing at, he would reply "Just at the thought I could have you killed right now." Though I have to say the tales of Caligula half-bankrupting Rome so he could ride his horse across his boat-island was amusing.
Another on the do-not-attend dinner party list would have to be Heliogabalus.
The emperor Nero would have been the worst dinner-party companion. A bad singer who would force people to listen to his ghastly performances.
ReplyDeleteSays Suetonius:
While he was singing no one was allowed to leave the theatre even for the most urgent reasons. And so it is said that some women gave birth to children there, while many who were worn out with listening and applauding, secretly leaped from the wall, since the gates at the entrance were closed, or feigned death and were carried out as if for burial.
What about Commodus? As barking mad as Caligula, Nero and Heliogabalus (for once Hollywood didn't exaggerate).
ReplyDeleteWhile he was singing no one was allowed to leave the theatre even for the most urgent reasons. And so it is said that some women gave birth to children there, while many who were worn out with listening and applauding, secretly leaped from the wall, since the gates at the entrance were closed, or feigned death and were carried out as if for burial.
Which is probably why the Jews thought "Quick, whilst they're not looking..."
What's the Latin for "Don't get mad, get even" because it certainly sums up Rome's view of any rebellion.